It means we are for everyone. We are not just for the hairdressers that have massive Instagram followings, or we don't just want to hear from those really really famous hairdressers followings, or we don't just want to hear from those really really famous hairdressers. We're all about bringing the hairdressing community together and hearing everyone's voices.

Danielle: 0:29

So here we are, thank you, and so today we'll be covering kpis and everything that revolves around kpis, and who have we got here to help us?

Gabby: 0:36

today we have the amazing blair from pure holistic in canberra, we've got jade from privet in victoria and we've got Emma from the Abbey Hill Collective in Albury-Wodonga. Hi guys, thank you. So today we're going to be talking, as Dani said, about KPIs and all things retail. First thing I wanted to ask you guys is what have you negotiated before? What is your best ever negotiation that you've done? He's gonna start.

Emma: 1:06

Come on him, come on him so I think this sounds like a good negotiation, but I think I was actually negotiated. So, um, I had a client who had a friend that had some golden retriever puppies and I was like I really want one. She said you should get one, I can't afford a dog. She's like I'll pay for it, you just take the money off my hair. So I'm getting a dog in cost of that is so good so yeah that's a good deal.

Gabby: 1:34

It's very cool. It's very cool. I'm very excited. Yeah, when you posted them, I sent them to Matt and I was like I can't wait to get that.

Emma: 1:41

She's so. But yeah, so I now accidentally have a dog because someone told me they'd pay for it. And what are you going to name it? Her name's going to be Abby, so she's going to be Abby.

Jade: 1:52

from the Abby Hill collection.

Emma: 1:53

That's it. She's going to be a little salon doggo, oh that's sweet.

Gabby: 1:56

Yeah, I love that Very cute.

Jade: 2:17

What about you, jade? Do you know what I actually had? A really good one, just come to mind, and it's quite controversial. I basically negotiated the entire of Preve Hair and Makeup. Basically because it started off with me doing colour at home and then connecting people and the client saying, oh, I really like my makeup done. I do makeup really like a hair up. And me negotiating and saying to the artists I'm happy to connect you with this person, but it's getting a lot of work. Like, do you mind if I just take a cut, but you still get paid the same. And then now it's a nationwide thing. So basically, I negotiated my way to having a business phenomenal, great that's literally how it happened so good you're much better negotiator than me I am.

Blair: 2:42

I'm the type of person that just is like oh okay, yeah, you just have that, Just cause that's me. You know I was thinking before how I literally walk. You know, you see all the charity people that they're always out in front of the shops and all those kinds of things, and I feel so bad to say no to them, even though I give to lots of different charities. I want to give to everybody. So I actually my strategies. I ring my husband every time and I just walk past so that I'm on the phone, so I don't have to say no they sometimes don't care, though, like it's fun and hang up.

Jade: 3:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah and when they hang up, you just stay on the line like, yep, oh, really, wow, and it's just, there's no one there they have a hard job until your friend starts reading, while you're like pretending to be on it they do have a really hard job yeah fabulous, fabulous guys.

Gabby: 3:23

Well, what we're going to be talking, as we said, about KPIs, and the first thing I wanted to ask you guys, as hairdressers, is why should we be selling retail to our clients, or why should we be recommending things? What?

Blair: 3:35

Why so many reasons? You know, I always think of it like if you go to say you went to a specialist of any kind, you went to the doctor and they say you know this prescription for your health, or you went to well, anything you know, like you'd go to a physio and you need to do specific exercises. Same thing, right, so like. But they come to us with their hair problems. We're not. I don't feel like we're actually selling it, we're just providing them with what they need. So that's how I kind of look at it that you know you don't go to other services and not get what you need to do at home or what you need to take home in order to keep progressing, for whatever that is. I look at it like that. It's the same kind of thing.

Danielle: 4:09

Yeah 100%.

Jade: 4:11

It's like going to a skin clinic and then going home and using shower gel on your face, which I did do for the first 20 years of my life, by the way. And then I got older and they were, like you need to use, like what are you doing? So it's exactly the same thing Just making sure that they're empowered and able to actually maintain and sustain what you create, Because we're recommending the products that we use. So I think it's the right thing to do, it's the ethical thing to do. If anything.

Emma: 4:37

Yeah, and I think it's probably more yeah, changing the language around it as well, as I'm not selling you this, I'm providing you with the opportunity to extend your salon experience at home. Yeah, and so that they just keep, you know they keep being able to have that opportunity to keep their hair looking salon professional. Yeah, um, and you know they are that. Yeah, it's a, it's a provision of goods, not it's actually your.

Jade: 5:03

I think you're obliged. It's like what you should be doing, and if you're not, you're actually.

Blair: 5:07

It's a disservice to the client more than anything, because you're solving their problems they come and they said you, my hair feels really dry or I don't know how to blow dry my hair, and so it's. We can help them with that. It's our job to say well, you know products, show them how to do it, how to use it, all the things. Um, so it's I.

Danielle: 5:23

Yeah, I don't really call it selling, it's just problem solving, do you feel like staff feel that way too, or do you feel like, as business owners, that's your perception?

Jade: 5:31

I think it's very yeah, you've got to empower the staff, haven't you to think like that? Because the automation is that it's a bit of a blockage and that it's too, yeah, but by through the right nurturing and education, they realize that actually it benefits them. But it's also mainly about benefiting the client when it comes to as business owners.

Gabby: 5:50

You guys see the figures and you know that when you are selling retail, you, when you're recommending it and the clients are buying it, it's better for you guys. Yeah, is it actually like do you have the stats, kind of, do you actually notice a really big impact on your margins when you are selling more retail? Oh, definitely.

Blair: 6:09

Yeah, I think any retail obviously makes a huge difference, but it can be the difference of thousands in the week or the fortnight, you know. So from that perspective, yes, we do see that stuff. But I think it's more, yeah, just about encouraging people to add value to other people, because when you start to care about people and add value to them and provide, you know, answers to their questions or concerns or things like that, the retail kind of just does it by itself. That's how I look at it.

Gabby: 6:39

Yeah, I don't know if I'm saying when it comes to rebooking your clients, I know you guys all kind of have different ways to do it and you rebook on like a month, like a monthly kind of way, or year in advance.

Emma: 6:51

No no no, I've, I've completely stopped doing that. Um, I only I'm only allowing my clients to book four months in advance. Um, and again, that was one of the things for me. Why it has become so valuable to be my own boss was because I got to start doing hair how I wanted to do it.

Emma: 7:08

And I think one of the burnout points is in January, when you've got people booking every six weeks for the whole year and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I really want to go on this trip for my birthday or something.

Emma: 7:19

And you're like, oh, but I've already got like Danny booked in here and I can't move this and so now I only have, you know, most of my clients come in every like two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve weeks. So the clients that come in every eight can book two ahead. The ones that come in every, you know, up until eight weeks can always have two client, two appointments booked ahead. Um, and the ones that come in less can have more. But the ones that come in every 10 to 12 weeks don't really need that next appointment booked in anyway, because they're not the regulars. They're happy to kind of wait an extra week or two if they can't get in um, and so, yeah, for me that's been like game-changing. The only people that um, there's a difference for is the people on my membership, um, because they get priority booking, so they get booked in for the whole year from my end, but I don't confirm their appointments until four months out.

Emma: 8:13

So if I've got someone in on a Wednesday and I'm like, oh, I want to take that Wednesday off and it's six months ahead, I'll just be like you can come in on Tuesday or the week before or the week after or whatever, and you that that communication with them. But you know that those people are have to get their hair done this week because they've paid their weekly monthly fee, um, and I think it's been one of the best moves that I've done for my ability to have flexibility yeah yeah, yeah.

Emma: 8:41

And even just saying to my friends you know, just as long as you give me 16 weeks notice, I can do anything yeah, jade, I know you have.

Gabby: 8:48

Um, I really love the way that you do it in your salon with your rebookings. Can you explain that a little bit?

Jade: 8:53

yeah. So we try and do um the complete opposite, because it's it's mainly not me, obviously, doing um the hair. But we're like you want to book two years in advance? Perfect, right, we'll take it, take your details. But, um, it's really about the journey we try and create, which I think is super important because clients, if you get to the reception desk at the end and you're like, do you want to rebook? It's like no, gotta go and get my car, thanks for the hair.

Jade: 9:18

Really happy, um, but in the consultation process, something that we really nurture is the, you know. So this is what we're doing today. Have you ever considered this? Something that would be really nice is this let's do a quick hair and scalp analysis so we can look at maybe a detox scalp treatment next time. So just really solidifying the client as well. Now, the team's bigger. I said to the team like it's your responsibility to claim the client and the only way that you do that is by creating a future journey. So they're like, oh my God, this person is the only person that can do my hair.

Gabby: 9:50

They've got the plan.

Jade: 9:51

They know what's going on, yeah exactly, exactly, and there's a bit of healthy competition.

Jade: 9:56

Now they're like oh, gosh, she's got my client so, yeah, like really, in the consultation process. And then when it gets to the reception desk, it's not like, hey, do you want to rebook? It's so that scout trip when we spoke about I've got this date, this day, I'm going to leave you with laura at the desk and she can book that for you. Um, and just getting in, I mean, we tried to talk about three, three future appointments, but they're absolute, non-negotiable. Is the next one? Yeah, yeah. And what happens if they haven't rebooked? Look well, we fire them. None of that, we know, we know. We know.

Danielle: 10:27

They're gone.

Jade: 10:29

No, if they don't rebook, like, we're not pushy, right, we're a holistic, like everyone here is really ethical business owners. We're here to, like, provide the client with a great experience and the staff. The way that I see it is, if the client doesn't rebook, there was something missing in the journey or the consultation, or there's a chance that they just don't want to rebook, they've moved away and that happens, you know. But it's about the consistent overall percentage. Like, if you're consistently rebooking at 40%, that's not the client and the variable. That's something that you're training and nurturing the team on. Wrong, you know, if it varies from 80 to 67, you're doing okay.

Gabby: 11:06

Yeah, so that's kind of your benchmark.

Jade: 11:09

Yeah, our goal is always 80, but we kind of sit around 67 to 70. Yeah, that's the overall salon, though Everyone's always changing.

Gabby: 11:19

I would get so angry in the salon I would only, by the end, was working one day a week. I wasn't 100%. Yeah, I would be calling that one client and be like why aren't you booked in? You know I'm really hard to get into and you won't be able to get in and they're like oh, I'm so sorry yeah, I'm so sorry.

Jade: 11:33

Yeah, I've actually moved overseas. Yeah, but I'll still book in.

Gabby: 11:37

I'll still book in yeah if I was not 100%, that was wrath for the whole day.

Blair: 11:44

Oh bless.

Gabby: 11:45

Well, I just knew that it was going to be hard.

Blair: 11:47

Oh yeah.

Gabby: 11:48

And if they don't rebook it, then I'm not going to see you again and if the ones that don't rebook, they're like what do you mean?

Jade: 11:52

you don't have time for me. I'm like I did ask you to rebook.

Blair: 12:01

Yeah, and I wanted to see them. Actually, I find like honesty is so important, so like truthfully, you know like with some stylists me and others included they actually won't get in for three months They'll ring up and say can I get?

Blair: 12:13

an appointment with Blair and I'm like, yep, you can get in in three months' time. They're like, what? So they kind of know that. But that's the conversation that. Um, you know, our like sort of the same in the consultation process. We look at all those future things, um, and then we have that, um, it's not even asking would you like to rebook? We sort of say, okay, so what we'll do is, I'm like, helping them solve the problem, because you truly know that they will not get in with you for their appointment.

Blair: 12:37

So you say I say, um, I'm going to get you booked in just so that you've got your spot, because we do look at like in advance, we're going to make sure you're in there because we love to give our you know, our regulars first, first dibs. Kind of not those exact words, kind of conversation um priority booking absolutely priority booking and it's honest and it's honestly the truth.

Blair: 12:56

And I think I mean you have honest conversations, like overall, with clients about everything. So, for example, like I I think traditionally in hairdressing we get you know, oh, let's book everybody in for their tea every six weeks because we need them to come back. Well, you know what, sometimes I actually don't need to come in six weeks. So, yeah, like you know, some clients when they're new, they'll say, oh, I used to come every six weeks. What I say to them, well, actually you could push it out to eight and if you want to, in between we can offer a t-section service. So it's really quick.

Blair: 13:20

And you know like, oh, okay, so they, if you have those honest conversations throughout the consultation process, throughout the whole process, the rebooking actually is not even a question. It's just we just get you in. So it's that's how we kind of work it as well. We have our target is about at about 75 percent and obviously when a new stylist come in, they go. But if I say you won't get in with me, um, that's not true. And I was like, well, I'll give you four, I'll give you six weeks, and because the waiting list for clients is, is there? So, um, yeah, that's kind of how we a little bit similar to you, jane.

Jade: 13:52

Yeah, it's all nurturing isn't it like doing the right thing, ethically, I think, by the staff, by everyone, if you're being honest, telling the truth, giving a great service and providing that nurturing and that journey regardless, regardless of whether you've got space or not. They want to rebook with you because you're like, they care, this person cares, and I really want to be on the journey with them Absolutely, and when we stopped closing we stopped opening on Saturdays.

Blair: 14:14

That made a difference as well, because they really want their appointments. Everyone was up in arms. But it also helps because I know Emma you said how you know you love that flexibility of knowing, like I kind of book out holidays in advance and a lot of the team do and we're not booked. Like you know, some people will go ahead and book their whole year's worth of appointments with certain stylists and others. You know we're booked out a few months in advance so it's easier to do that. But also because they have Saturday, sunday, monday off.

Emma: 14:50

If they want to go for a way for the weekend, it's easier. So that kind of helped as well. Like for both staff and clients to for the rebookings. Yeah, I think um, like for me as well, because I'm pretty much just a team of one. I've had a few like speckles of staff here and there and obviously you guys have much bigger teams than me.

Emma: 14:58

I think it's like I'm only relying on myself to be able to you know if I have to cancel an appointment or a client cancels on me, like I need to have that bit of flexibility to be able to, you know. And when I go to the desk I just say, okay, that appointment was eight weeks, are we doing another eight weeks? It's not like, would you like to rebook an appointment? It's still it's still known that they're going to rebook, but yeah, and still known that they're going to rebook. But yeah, and I think too I think I was looking at my numbers last night I think I had 86 percent rebookings, but like a 96 client retention, yeah, so, and I just I think that um, especially in the last couple of years with COVID and everything like that, um, I also had like a knee injury, um, so I was, my salon had to close for like 15 weeks in the first 18 months of me being open and I just felt I was constantly rescheduling.

Emma: 15:51

And so I feel like this way, you know those clients who this last salon that I worked at, we had dozens of clients booked that year out, but then they'd go oh, I'm actually going away for this time, and then so that then had to push their next client out, their next appointment out three time and then so that then had to push their next client at their next appointment out three weeks and then we had to move all of them and so, yeah, for me that just was that um, ptsd. Yeah, yeah, well, yes, yes, yeah. But I feel like I do a lot less rescheduling and cancelling now because people are yeah yeah, I feel like those clients as well.

Gabby: 16:23

They're not rescheduling their entire lives around their appointment.

Blair: 16:26

Like they're not going.

Gabby: 16:27

So sorry, I can't go on holidays because I'm getting my regrowth done.

Emma: 16:30

We do have one client but we're saying we can't go on holidays because you're getting your regrowth done Like it's wild.

Gabby: 16:36

So I'm assuming Em that what motivates you in particular is flexibility Like 100%.

Emma: 16:41

Yeah.

Gabby: 16:45

What about? Is flexibility like 100%? Yeah, what about everyone else like for you guys?

Jade: 16:49

what would motivate you to do more?

Gabby: 16:49

what is your motivators in life? More clients, more clients more.

Jade: 16:51

What like to do what?

Danielle: 16:52

just in everything like more retail sales hit the KPIs like you're in a salon. What's going to?

Jade: 16:57

retention, um building success for other people. Yeah, really, that's what I love more than hair, more than anything, I think having the knowledge and experience that I've had and so being and I've kind of honed that experience and being able to pass it on to others and then say things like oh my god, this is the most money I've ever earned in hairdressing.

Jade: 17:18

I go home and I'm like yeah, that's so cool like, and then you get the best staff, you have the best experience, which translates to an amazing client experience, because they're like everyone in here is so cool and really nice, and so for me it's like the more that you can give them, the more they give you back. So if they're successful, I'm successful, everyone's happy. It's the biggest and most important thing, definitely.

Blair: 17:42

Mine's pretty much the same and I always say say, like, when people come into pura, like I'm not silly enough to think that people are going to work there forever and plus, I don't want them to work there forever because I want to, I'm not someone's like, oh gosh, they're going to move somewhere else. And then now we have to make sure that we get all their clients. I'm like good for you. Like you know, upgrade your life, because I don't want to hold people back. Does, does that make sense? But I want them, when they do leave, to go. That was the best place I've ever worked at, yeah.

Emma: 18:06

And then hopefully come back one day too.

Blair: 18:08

Yeah, yeah but like you know, you see people, you want people to grow? Because, if you're, yeah, I love seeing people grow, because if they're not, then I don't feel like that I'm doing my, I'm not doing'm the same. I love to see them grow in all different ways.

Danielle: 18:30

What do you think motivates the staff? First of all, you're in the right positions because you like growing other people. But, in terms of your staff and trying to motivate them to perform better, not just for the clients but also for the business. Do you find that money is motivating them or has there been a bit of a shift as to what would motivate the staff? I think shift.

Blair: 18:50

There's a couple that's still motivated by money, but some of them are like they're not, yeah, like I don't know about everybody else, but I know at Pure in particular, there's most of them actually aren't motivated by money, like cash, bonuses and stuff, like, of course, like they love it, but they like different things, like events, incentive, product gifts, like, or something that's going to help them, like, for example, if, um, like a couple of them, I bought them a ticket to a breathwork session and they love that because they really wanted to go. You know things like that. So I think it really depends on the person and also the culture of the salon as a whole, because obviously, like attracts like too. So, um, yeah, I think yeah, you'll on the person and also the culture of the salon as a whole, because obviously, like attracts like too. So, yeah, I think, yeah, you'll always get people that I mean, everyone wants more money, but I think it's not actually the money itself, it's what's attached to the end of that that they're motivated by.

Jade: 19:36

Yeah, it's definitely like a culture thing. I think, specifically our team, I feel like they are very money motivated, but that's definitely not it, because if all the other elements weren't nurtured and touched on, then money just doesn't matter. It's just like you know, but it is. It's a combination of, like the, the cultural team outings and having a drink together after work and, you know, knowing that there's always something planned, we do something once a month, whether it's just like a small dinner or a massive immersive like thing, and we we pay for that and they but they really appreciate it and then they earn good money as well, and so, and they know there's so much opportunity.

Jade: 20:15

So we talk a lot about the growth, um, and we do weekly one-to-ones to see how are you feeling, how was your week, where are you at? And then, once every six months, we do like a bit of a career planning, almost coaching session as like where does this fit in with you? How can we support you to reach your goals? And some of them are like, yeah, I'm just really happy and you know they'll get a pay increase and then their prices will go up marginally and that for them is like the best thing in the whole world and others are are. Like you know, we're having a conversation at the moment. She's really wanting to potentially open a salon and I was like that's awesome. Like you know, tell me about that. But you know how hard it is to open a salon from the ground up right, it's like.

Jade: 20:57

So we had a gentle conversation the other day and we said you know, something that could be on our scope would be opening another site and so if that was something that could, you could potentially want to be involved with. If your motivation for this is management empowerment, um, we'd be happy to support you with that. And she was like I was like yeah, like why not?

Gabby: 21:19

why wouldn't why?

Jade: 21:20

wouldn't we help you with that? It's great for us, it's great for and so do you want to come to Albury? It's a bit of a long drive, babe, but I'll be there.

Gabby: 21:29

You are, you are so you think Jade with your team? I know your team and I can imagine they do love the money bonus, but I reckon they'd be quite competitive with each other as well. Yeah, so they kind of almost like that recognition of like you nailed it this week or like I made an extra, however much this week, what did you guys make like yeah, and they love that recognition to be able to yeah, I think all, all staff, just everyone loves recognition.

Jade: 21:54

Um, I got a birthday card from the guys on saturday. It was my birthday a couple of weeks before, but I was away and it depends on your love language, right, what's your love language, what's your love? But, like just saying, I've never felt so supported in a job. Thank you for being such an amazing boss. I was like in tears because it's everyone loves recognition and so, yeah, there's healthy competition, but they also love the support you know and recognizing when it hasn't been great, rather than being like you didn't do well in this, giving them the opportunity which we do through them filling out like a sheet saying how do you think you did last week and what do you think you could have done differently, versus saying, yeah, your retail was last week like we don't do that.

Jade: 22:38

We just let them talk and then we empower them to give them options, support, training, whatever it might be that they need, and so constant recognition is required. I think well, like, aside from money, in life, if someone's not appreciating you and acknowledging you, then it's just a massive turn off yeah, yeah do you guys ever play like fun games in your salon for retail or KPIs, do you do?

Emma: 23:03

games. I have only ever like been employed by one salon. I was there for eight years and it was definitely something that helped us. We'd have like a little tally sheet at the front desk and there'd be a certain product that you'd have to sell, but it got a bit like war was exactly what I wanted.

Emma: 23:23

it was fun and it was motivational and I think, like I think maybe that week I sold 21 of one product and it was. It was like war, though it was like do we have enough stock to say, you know, um? So yeah, I think I've been part of that and I did enjoy it, but it also gave a lot of anxiety to a lot of staff that were maybe a bit quieter, a little bit more like I'm not even going to try because Emma can sell ice to an Eskimo, like. Just that whole thing of like oh, this makes me feel a bit uncomfortable and then they sort of wouldn't try. But I'm pretty much by myself for my most of my journey in owning a salon so.

Emma: 24:08

I'm like sometimes I'm like, oh, if you sell you know five of these shampoos, you can have a glass of rose tonight. Um, so yeah, but it's certainly something that I'm trying to do a little bit more of. My new apprentice is phenomenal. She's just had her own bakery for 10 years and she was front of house at the bakery and her husband's the baker, and so she's really great at that personality and that personable and she's a massive consumer herself. So she's the kind of person that can be like, oh my God, I love this, I love this, I love this, I love this. And we go to the same place. She had her eyebrows done and the other day she was coming in after me and I just, you know, I paid for her eyebrow appointment.

Emma: 24:54

It was like 20, 30 bucks or something from my end, but obviously you know she's a mature age apprentice. I think, just going back to what we're saying about what motivates you and stuff with the financial climate we're in, I think if you give someone 20 bucks you might buy a coffee or whatever. But I think if you pay for their eyebrows or they, you know, you give them that experience that this isn't towards petrol or whatever it's like, you can actually go and treat yourself in some level.

Emma: 25:28

I think that's a really nice way to look at things at the moment.

Jade: 25:32

I love it if it's in work hours as well. They're like can I have an extended lunch break?

Gabby: 25:37

Sure, the salons that I worked at you can imagine were the games were pretty wild, yeah did you make? The games, but one of them we had one time was it was like a monopoly money kind of thing and everything had a dollar value. Every single thing in this salon had a dollar value. So it'd be like if you hit your um kpis for that day, you would get five bucks. If you didn't have a sick day for the entire month, you got $10. I like this.

Jade: 26:06

Take notes what else was there.

Gabby: 26:09

There was, yeah, like good attitude, and then you would just randomly get it too. So one day they'll be like the person who sells the most product will get $5. And so by the end of the month you would have this massive wad of cash. It was Monopoly money, yeah. And then we had an auction, and then at the auction there was every single type of prize you could imagine. There was like Segway tours around Brisbane, there was jewelry, there was like everything, and then we bid for everything. So, with all of our money, we would bid.

Emma: 26:40

That's super cool.

Gabby: 26:45

And then so some people would pull together and they'd be like okay, so that Segway tour is for two people, so if we pull both of our money together, then we'll be able to do it. But what was great about it was it was for everyone. So, as you were saying, like you know, some people get a little bit demotivated because they're not going to do it, or they only work two days a week. How could they possibly?

Blair: 26:57

do it.

Gabby: 26:58

However, this was for everything. Yeah, so it included rebooking, it included retail, it included sick days and getting to work on time, and you'll get money taken off you too. So if you were late, you get money taken off. Oh, that's why I'd be poor and it's like I've got negative money. So, um, and yeah, the apprentices were able to get involved and everyone was able to do it. Um, but another thing that we did once and this is just like a random one is you'd have like a $50 note and it would be in someone's pocket. Um, and every time you would sell retail to someone, you would go steal that $50 note from whoever had it, and whoever had, at the end of the day, got to keep it. So you, an apprentice, could have won it, because they just have to sell retail to that very last client.

Jade: 27:44

Yeah, they can steal it from the senior so you actually can be quite tactical with it as well. You're like I'm just gonna just home in on the last minute. We got two minutes to go.

Blair: 27:53

I'm just gonna stall my client and take a little bit longer with their below, because I know they're gonna buy that glossy neck down and then another one we've done was like, just like a holiday, and it was for the whole of december.

Gabby: 28:05

Actually, there was three holidays up for grabs over three years. The first one was for italy, I think we there was a bali and a thailand, um, and it was a point system, that one, and this is when our salons, like you know, we had 30 staff, so there was a lot of yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like you should treat yourself to italy I have to sell one glossy nectar

Gabby: 28:26

it was the point system that anyone could be involved in. So it was your own personal goals and your kpis. So the um casual person that was only working two days a week or whatever, they were still eligible if they still meet this criteria. Um, because that's fair, like they're working just as hard. And so, yeah, everyone was eligible. The apprentices one year. The apprentice won. She was a third or fourth year apprentice.

Gabby: 28:50

I bet she was so wrapped Well. So by the end there was four salons, right, and everyone had their like. We were like, okay, you are our person, like we can see that you're probably going to be winning. And so then the salons got behind her and so, like it was christmas, new year's eve, and everyone's like I'll come in and get my hair done by you, I'll buy retail. So everyone was just gunning for your one person, um, and then, yeah, so the third year apprentice, I think, ended up winning and she had a massive and I thought just to even say hear that that's the kind of stuff that makes me excited about the industry.

Emma: 29:23

I think when I look back at our games that were like the Hunger Games, it was stylist against stylist and I think it really put us against each other rather than.

Gabby: 29:36

And I don't even remember what we won. It wasn't. You know what I mean.

Emma: 29:40

Like yeah like it's yeah, but I think, something like that. It just really helps to like hone in that community and that supportiveness and the fact that we are here for the greater good of the industry. And yeah, I think I. I think back to 10 years ago and the thought of sitting with three of my competitors. That was what I would think, whereas now I'm like I get to sit with, you know, three of my Sisters.

Jade: 30:09

Yeah, well, yeah.

Emma: 30:11

And I just I love it, it's really nice Come here, Tissue Come here Tissue. Because I work by myself mostly.

Danielle: 30:18

It's just really nice to hang out with some other hairdressers. So, in the same breath of motivation, though, we obviously have to be able to sell in the first place, and considering you can sell ice to Eskimos, you're probably a good one to answer this. Yeah, who do you feel like is the best person to train people on actually selling?

Emma: 30:33

I think, um, I think it's really interesting what different people get and how they're taught as well.

Emma: 30:40

So, you know, I think it's really important for like Gab to sit down and talk to me about Owe and Sophic and all of those products, because she knows them more than anyone, and so then I think, um, it's then up to us to play with them and work them out and what we love about them and, you know, maybe change some of those scientific words into normal words and so that we can, and client words and stuff like that.

Emma: 31:10

So I think if there's someone that's struggling with the confidence, say an apprentice, and they haven't used the products a lot, then I think it's up to the salon owner to make sure that there's some time, or the manager or whoever it is, to make sure that there's some time, or the manager or whoever it is, um, to make sure that there's some time for that person to be able to like, play with them, feel them, understand them, to then be able to talk to them confidently. To the client, um, yeah, I think I've I've read books and listened to podcasts and stuff like that and I think that's, you know, that's going the next level if selling retail is really important to you as a person. I think that's where you can go and listen to a podcast on um.

Emma: 31:50

You know how to make friends and influence people, or whatever you know, um, but you know, I think certainly the, the company that you're selling, I think um needs to have a fairly high standard of involvement, of educating us and then us educating the staff, and then the staff educating the clients.

Danielle: 32:09

And do you think there's anything further to the education required from the staff? So do you feel like the education is all that they need to be able to sell the product, or do you think there's something else that they might need to be able to help them? I think so.

Emma: 32:23

I think that, yeah, the sort of basic level of education you've got to believe in it, yeah, and that's what I mean. I think it's really important to not just be like this is glossy nectar, it has, you know, blah blah, blah blah. You need to, you need. I think there was one product that I used to use and it had that really um, like tingly feeling, and the rep was talking about vasodilation and all that kind of stuff and I was like it just makes your hair feel tingly yeah, you know, because because, like I think that my clients and my staff like, once I start talking about vasodilation, everyone's going to be like sounds like something that happens in childbirth.

Emma: 33:01

Um, so yeah, I think again, it just depends what motivates you and what you, what you need personally yeah, so your belief sort of rubs off on the customer, yeah, and then they believe it too, because I think we're doing our customer a disservice if we're selling them a product that they don't need absolutely and so why?

Emma: 33:17

why would you oversell? Because I think then you're gaining trust by giving them the products that they need and that they're going to use. I'll often say to someone I'm going to use this on you today. What have you got at home that's similar? And then they'll be like oh, I've got this paste or this paste or whatever and I'm like cool, use that. Or I'm going to use this product because you've got that at home, use that. Or I'm going to use this product because you've got that at home, knowing that when they run out of that, they can come and buy this because they know that it works. And I've said you know.

Emma: 33:46

But I also sometimes say to my clients chuck everything in a bag. I don't care what brand they are, I don't care how long they you've had them for, because you're not going to buy anything that you need. If you've got all of this stuff in your cupboard at home, bring it all in, we'll sort it out. We'll go just throw that out, keep that. Use this when your hair's short, use this when your hair's long. This is this yeah, you can mix these together

Emma: 34:09

or whatever and they just, I think they love that. It's not. It's not that selling, then it's providing them a service and fixing a pain point, where that they can then go on. Actually, this one's nice and shiny. I'll just buy all the new, fresh stuff, because I think if you've got a cupboard full of stuff that you're not using you're not going to buy. I keep saying glossy nectar, but you're like I'm not going to buy the glossy nectar cause I've got an oil at home but it's not opened so it only works on your hair if you use it.

Danielle: 34:39

Yep, on your hair if you use it. Yep, so salon owners responsible for educating, which in turn leads to the same yeah I'd say, I'd say um like suppliers, salon owners, staff clients as a supplier.

Gabby: 34:53

Let's say we can tell you this is this and this has these ingredients in it and these are the features, these are the benefits. Have so much fun. Yeah, I sell that to an apprentice. Yes, that means nothing. Yes, they're amazing. Yeah, so is it the supplier's job to do that or no? And is it even the salon owners like what about someone from the outside? Does it have to be a hairdresser? That teaches someone to sell?

Blair: 35:14

no, I think it's a collective as well, because for me, I think, yes, you need to know the ingredients or not ingredients, but what the product does, you need to probably know a couple of key ingredients, because I think sometimes what people do is they focus on the features and not the benefits. So it's like selling, like you're going on a holiday and it's like trying to sell the airplane that you're going there on rather than actually trying to sell the destination, and it just goes over the client staff as well, but over the client's head. So it's like let's sell the destination, let's talk about the key features and maybe, if you want to choose one or two ingredients. So I think, yes, you need to know that, yes, you need to believe in it. But I also think it's a mindset shift, in all honesty, because, like we're sitting here going, yeah, um, you know, like let's help them with their problems, but not everybody thinks like that, because they're giving them a product or something. They think, oh, I'm selling this, I'm selling this, I'm selling this.

Blair: 35:59

So I actually think it's that, that shift in mindset, and and it doesn't I don't think it has to be a specific person, but it's I think it needs to be a bit of a collective. So I know like I probably take that for granted because that's how I think anyway. So sometimes I say to some of the other staff you know, tell me how you feel and then I'll go. Okay, I want you to share that with the, I want you to share that with the staff at the staff meeting or whatever, because I think it's like that collective does that make sense.

Gabby: 36:25

That's how I kind of work it. I know, like hairdressers, we have very specific skills. Let's say we are amazing at doing blondes. That doesn't mean that we're amazing at selling things like it just doesn't. And I really believe that it doesn't just have to be a hairdresser that can tell someone how to sell something or teach them or explain it to them, like danielle, not a hairdresser. The way that she was talking we were talking about this the other day the way that she was talking about it, I was like you need to do a motivational speech just on, just on selling hair products, and she's absolutely not a hairdresser at all. But yeah, it's the that mindset. Yeah, I really feel like hair and hairdressers we are very tunnel visioned hairdressers. You are the only person that can tell me if you are not, but do not talk to me. I really feel like we have to kind of almost get out of that a little bit and be like car salesman. Why did you sell me that car tint? How did you do that?

Gabby: 37:12

yeah yeah, um, because it's not just. We are not that great at it sometimes and we need that outside influence yeah, it takes a village.

Jade: 37:19

It's like bringing up a child, it's like it really is. So the village is everyone in the salon and henry yeah, business partner, partner, co-partner is is the perfect example. So everyone thinks he's a hairdresser. It's hilarious. This client's called and they're like is there any chance henry could do my hair? I'm like henry can't do your hair, no, he has no idea about hair. And they're're like really, because I just assumed. But he has a sales background and he's great with customer service. But he can nurture and give so much to the client that they just assume he's a hairdresser.

Jade: 37:55

Does that make sense? So, like with the nurturing of everyone's different backgrounds from the supplier, the salon owner, owner, the highest retailer, the lowest retailer like where do you struggle? Where are these issues? We do team training as well and we do we love role play. Like once someone sits down and I'm like right, I'm going to be the most annoying client in the world, try and manage me and then I'll give an example and that works really well and it's just feeling supported and guided from all aspects. I don't think there's one person that it's. It's the salon owner's responsibility to implement and set the standard, but they need to then relay this on to everyone that's going to support everyone to be the best that they can be absolutely agree.

Emma: 38:37

Do you think there's an element that comes down to I'm?

Emma: 38:39

I'm positive that we'll talk about it later on with um, like the, the industry's niching out quite a lot. I think that you know for so long, I know for myself, it's always been about being the jack of all trades, and so it's like you have to be able to be good at this, you have to be able to be good at that, but only like just good enough. Whereas I feel like now, say, we're talking about extensions I don't know why I picked that, I've got no idea about extensions but but say, but this I suppose this is my point is like I'm not going to be that great at selling extensions or whatever, but I would say you know, like jade, what would you recommend for this so you might know all of the products to do with the extensions, because you're the extension extraordinaire or whatever.

Emma: 39:25

Whereas, like I'm the girl for, like the curly hair yeah and so you know, when you obviously have a team that works. Um, I think that I think that that's probably the thing is that I love doing lived in color, and so for me now it's easy to provide the information of what that home hair care looks like in order for you to keep this color. So you know, you've spent 550 bucks on a full head of foils. That is going to last you six months. I offer them to come into the salon, maybe in 12 weeks time, just for like a little maintenance appointment. But then in between those, here's the sunset hour mask, because that's going to really help to keep your colour really nice and bright. In between, and here's the nurturing drops for your ends and let's put a little bit of you know, whatever it is into the mix so that then we can support you for that six months.

Emma: 40:22

If you don't do that, then this color isn't going to last six months. It's not going to be the like the biggest benefit to you. So I think, like because we're starting to niche out a little bit more and each client, each stylist has their own like vibe. If you don't do, if you're someone that works in lots of doing chemical straightenings and and relaxes. You don't necessarily need to know too much about the curly hair products. So I think that, yeah, it's still, we don't need to know.

Blair: 40:51

We only need to know what we need to know and you need to know it well yes, and then, yes, and if you have a culture like a set a standard as a culture, if you are a place that has lots of staff, for example, that culture of we all help each other and care about each other, and it, like you know, remove the ego, you don't need to know everything, we can't, we can't grow and stroke our ego at the same time. They just don't work together like that. So if you have that culture of growth and helping and support, like and I think again, like I look around and I sometimes feel like maybe, and you even just saying that, like oh, maybe I take that for granted because that just happens, but then we realise, actually in lots of salons out there it doesn't just happen like that. So I think that that's, yeah, a super important point.

Gabby: 41:29

So let's say, we've got a single operator, maybe Not you.

Blair: 41:32

Because you're really good at selling.

Gabby: 41:33

You're really good at recommending, you know a lot about retail.

Danielle: 41:36

She's already sold me. I'm like, I see it, you believe in it.

Jade: 41:39

I love it. You just remind me of that product again, I'm going to get the sunset mask.

Blair: 41:43

Yeah, sign up for my membership.

Gabby: 41:47

But we've got a single operator and they're just like. I'm not very good at selling retail. I have absolutely I'm not great at it or maybe they just don't believe in one brand enough. They're just like. I love bits about this. I love bits about this. I don't have room on my shelves to have everything, and I have seen on Instagram now there was one girl in particular and she's like I don't have any retail in my salon. I have affiliate coats with lots of different online retailers and I just recommend my clients go buy that with my coats. What do you guys think of that kind of model? I know in bigger salons it probably wouldn't work, but as an industry, I think it's the easiest case scenario.

Jade: 42:25

If you've only got yourself to worry about, you make all the rules. The hardest thing is people managing people different personalities, needs, wants, preferences like if you get to choose what you like and you can learn the best way that you learn, whether it's kinesthetic, audio, whatever format, you don't have to consider anyone else. You just stick with what you like. I think if affiliate programs work, they work does it literally doesn't matter, as long as it's working for you and the client and you can lean on the education portal that works best for you, whether it is, whatever kind of learning it is, and if you only like a certain few products, then you just learn a certain few products. You've got YouTube, podcasts. There are so many platforms now where you can educate yourself. I think that is literally the easiest and ideal situation. If I just had to worry about me, I'd be so easy.

Blair: 43:21

I think the only downfall is that the client doesn't take it home on the spot, and so then they might be like, oh, I forget to buy that and they've forgotten how to use it and all those things, because they don't they're not physically taking the product. But I think is you know, like if we're promoting good quality salon products and it's you know it's helping more people to access them, then I think that's a great thing.

Emma: 43:40

Yeah yeah, and again, I think it's also important, just going back to that like client communication, that they know, rather than buying it off a large website, that they buy it off the you know the website, but make sure that they put that affiliate link in so that you do still benefit from that, because I think any client, if they're going to be buying online and it's going to be the same price if they can still support you or not support you, like they're going to support you.

Emma: 44:05

So just making sure that they know that that's the case yeah but yeah, I think the only thing for me is that, um, you're not getting it right away yeah.

Blair: 44:14

On the other side of that, though, when they do have something they're using up, and then they don't have time to drive back to the salon to get it, they can just quickly jump online, grab the thing that you recommended, because they've run out of the other one that's awesome.

Gabby: 44:24

Do you guys think about those massive things now, or even um high quality professional brands being in woolly's price line? Is that affecting you, emma? You're like already cranky about it.

Emma: 44:39

I, I don't, I don't care, but I feel like I should. But I feel like, again, it just goes back to that client communication. If a client can support you or not, I feel like generally they do. Again, I'm in a fairly small town so we've got like one big retailer, um, and they're literally a block away from me, so it's not even the case of you know, we can usually get a park out the front of the salon. It's it's pretty easy for clients to come and get products from me. But having said that, I've got, I've got lots of friends that order their hair products online and stuff like that too. So I don't know if I think I'm happy enough within my own, that business model that it doesn't affect me. If that makes sense, what about you?

Jade: 45:27

Jade. Um, I think, look, I think it is really disappointing. I might not name drop just because I don't want to make it too sort of get in trouble. Um, no, there was some really big brands that I specifically used to work with in the uk before I came to australia and that were like the creme de la creme, and I was an ambassador for them and I was like, oh my god, I'm so proud. And then to see them in like hair house, warehouse and all the other stores, I think that is very disappointing.

Jade: 45:54

As a hairdresser and a salon owner, um, would I kick off about it? No, let it, you know, surrender, it is what it is. But, yeah, I think it's disappointing and I think it massively devalues the brand, more so than the salon. Um, but as a salon, personally, we align ourselves with um providers that don't do that, because for us, it's like we and also that how many times have you heard of these people that have sold out to the bigger branches? And then the client's like, yeah, my hair's been really brittle, but I'm using this. I'm like, yeah, that's like a prescriptive range that you just have no idea how to use the girl on Instagram told me to use it so I did, yeah, yeah, literally.

Jade: 46:32

And so just from all perspectives, it's actually not. If you're going to have a premium range, it's not ethical to just be shipping it off out of these massive retailers, because the clients need support and advice around it. And if you're a salon owner that's invested a lot of money but you can literally get it down the road, it's like why would we invest in your brand? And so I think it doesn't offend me, but I align myself with people that I think, ethically, are doing the better thing by my business, by the clients and by their own totally.

Emma: 47:02

I think maybe that's probably why it hasn't upset me as much, because I've never actually stocked a product that you can get anywhere else. Yeah, so, yeah, you can buy them online, but yeah, I think that's. It's definitely the case I only align myself with. There's one brand that you can, that I stock in the salon, that you can get at Hair House Warehouse, um, but you can also get in every other pretty much um salon in town. And again, people come to you because yeah yeah, and so is it.

Emma: 47:33

Is it case of? Are we talking about the clients that aren't coming to us and buying stuff from there, or is it the clients that, like, do come to us and then buy it from there? Like I find my clients will buy from me Random's down the street I don't care about.

Gabby: 47:50

I know my friends in particular like I don't do their hair, but I could get them a lot of product and they'll be like, oh no, well, such and such on Instagram was using some bizarre thing, and so now I've started using that and I'm like no, stop, stop like yeah please do the opposite.

Gabby: 48:06

Yeah, um, and I think it's kind of that influencers are telling them what they should be using and why they should be using it, so they go and buy it, the influencer gets the money and then this person's hair is now not too great yeah, and I and I think that is the biggest thing yes, it undervalues the salon, not the salon, the brand.

Blair: 48:25

sorry, um, it's also, you know, for salon owners as well like these, big companies obviously can buy it cheaper because they're buying in such a big box, so they sell it cheaper, which means obviously then the salons are um getting affected by that, but most of clients are using the wrong thing and then they go oh it doesn't work for my hair, it's like that.

Blair: 48:44

And so then they don't like the brand. But it's not the brand, it's because they're not using the right product. And so there's a reason why, you know, going back to what we discussed before you know you go to a specialist and they prescribe something. There's a reason why things only get over the counter or by prescription.

Gabby: 48:57

We're not going to the chemist and asking for antibiotics.

Blair: 49:00

Yeah, exactly exactly so, um, because it it's like it's subjective right. You know what I mean like based on the person. So you know, yes, I have thick hair, but doesn't mean that your hair looks relatively thick, but it doesn't mean like from here.

Gabby: 49:14

It doesn't.

Blair: 49:15

It doesn't, but it doesn't mean that you and I need the same product for the same blow-dry result, right? Because, like I live in Canberra, I was telling Jade before my hair's really dry at the moment because the air's really dry in the heat and you know it's probably very different to yours. So you know, I think that that really actually is not a good thing for the brand, in my opinion, because then people are going oh, I'm using this and it's not working.

Jade: 49:40

But it because then people are going, oh, I'm using this and it's not working, but it's just because they're using the wrong product. And any brand that is actually a premium hair brand in my opinion is prescriptive. Yes, there's not a like vanilla, one-size-fits-all kind of thing, like there might be one hero product that's kind of applicable to everyone, but across an entire range, everything is pretty prescriptive, depending on your hair texture, density, scalp, health, like what you do with it, all the things.

Danielle: 50:06

So I think today we've covered a lot of topics, but really the most interesting thing. First of all, it's clear that you're in the right jobs, because what motivates you is looking after your staff, and it's really interesting to hear the different games and ways to incentivise people as well. What we'll do is we'll put any links relating to the podcast on the Eco Salon Suppliers website. So if you'd like to know more about any of the games or incentives or motivational things that can help your staff, please follow the links below. But that's it for today. So thanks for joining us guys. Thank you so much for having us. It's been so fun.

Jade: 50:37

Thank you Love it.

Snip & Sip Podcast Episode 2 - KPIs : Retail, Rebooking & Staff Motivation in Salons

Snip & Sip Podcast Episode 3 Supporting the Supporters: The Unexpected Life of a Hairdresser

Snip & Sip Podcast Episode 1 Beyond Greenwashing, True Sustainability in Salons

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